ota | did someone break your heart inside?

[faithlikeaseed]

Name: Myr Shivana (un: mshivana)
Date: Mareuer 02, evening
Format: Video (!!)



[Somehow, this is a video post. Myr must've toggled it accidentally in trying to get to voice. The angle's awful, with the camera halfway covered by one of his hands, but what's visible of the Faun looks--

Well. He's seen better days. His face is hollow with sleeplessness and his hair's coming out of its usual braid. Even his blindfold seems mussed, pulled up a little on one side so there's a hint of scarring visible.]

We're accustomed to saying someone who's left us through the mirrors has "gone home". [Hello to you, too, Myr.] Like our time here in Aefenglom's the same as a trip to the Orlais countryside--a temporary jaunt and then home we go, with only the memories to keep.

Except we haven't got any evidence that's the case. Mirrorbound from the same world don't remember each other going missing or coming back with strange stories to tell. Those of us who've gotten new memories from home don't leave and live out their lives and return, they go to the Looking-glass House and see something in their mirrors.

I don't think we're who we think we are. [He shifts, tucking his chin toward his chest and covering the camera a little more. The charms on his antlers rattle against each other.] That is--I think the best explanation is we're not the people we remember being, taken physically from our homes in an eyeblink and returned the same way.

Back home, spirits in the Fade--our realm of dreams--will often imitate what they see in the waking world, or pick out of someone's memories. Some of them are very good at it. I wonder that we're not the same kind of thing--some product of Talam's dreams, created from magic and given memories of our homes, with the mirrors as our binding focus to keep us here.

And when they take us back--we die.

Comments

NO VIDEO just audio

[fuelingfire]

[With that sort of slow careful phrasing that comes with utter disbelief:]

Please clarify; those who 'go home' and experience changes in their life are merely walking up to their mirrors and ... hallucinating a while? No-one actually leaves? Is this common? Everyone does it this way?

you still get video because myr has no idea he's broadcasting

[faithlikeaseed]

That's my understanding.

There are some Mirrorbound have left through their Mirrors--Bonds broken and everything--and come back with new memories. A few come back remembering they've been in Aefenglom before, but many don't.

[He fidgets with his watch, which results in more of the camera being covered.]

I haven't...investigated in any systematic way, whether the ones who do remember also remember knowing about Aefenglom when they were back home.

[fuelingfire]

You're blocking your own recording.

[It's almost absent. You can see part of a Myr! But not all of the Myr! And it's all sepia.]

Even for those who 'leave', do we have a way to be certain they left at all, or is it merely absent bonds, which distance alone can shatter, and an absence of person? Have they been observed walking back through their mirror or however that goes?

Voice, actually

[whomthebelltolls]

[This is dumb, and she kind of hopes true, but she'll indulge it.] Not a bad supposition, but it takes too much of your experience from home into account. And if there is anything I have learned about this place it is that it is not going to work like your home. After all, if it worked like mine, Monsters would still be hunted in the streets, as fate would also dictate they would not be able to control themselves from killing and feasting on the blood and flesh of everyone around them.

We have dream worlds in my home, as well. Dreams which both the living and the dead can enter, but only those connected to a Great One can leave. Dreams and nightmares where time doesn't matter, because to the Great Ones... time does not matter. The Hunt could last for hours, days, weeks, if you went by your own reckoning; yet the Tomb of the Gods never moved a minute, trapped eternally in stasis in the catacombs. It would repeat, as well. You'd leave, and come back, and things you had killed would be back. Watchers would return to their posts, the rats would scurry over the corpses, but the doors would be open, and the vaults would be empty of whatever you took. And life in the waking world, when the Hunt was over, marched on at a tempo you'd find very familiar, despite both of those things.

And furthermore... what does it matter? Why even bring this up? Your existence is suddenly completely pointless? You've not made an impact on the lives of those around you; animals, humans, even the residents here, even if it's in this small bubble? So what if you die afterward? My world is an endless nightmare of blood and violence, and I've already died twice within it. If even a small part of me got some kind of reprieve from it, I consider it a welcome, if undeserved vacation.

I'm going to die when I go back through the mirrors anyway.

[faithlikeaseed]

[It's easy, when he's in a mood like this, to hear tone rather than content; that he takes Maria's response as a rebuke initially is obvious from how his one visible ear lowers and he rounds his shoulders.

Then the rest of his intellect catches up with him and he shakes his head firmly.]

You mistake my intent, Lady. I don't like the thought we may be some kind of spirit or construct; it means I won't return to the Maker's arms when I die. [And that is, frankly, horrifying to him.] But I don't believe it makes anything we do here meaningless.

[He's only in this much agony right now because of his effect on other lives and he Doesn't Like It.

Not enough to wish he weren't existing, curiously, beyond wanting to sleep most of the day to ignore his problems. But he finds himself not actually wanting to die and that's...something. That's something to hang on to.]

This matters because the truth matters. If we really aren't ourselves, then it's pointless to sink resources into "going home" to homes that were never ours in the first place. It's a choice already made, I know, for those of you who are dead--but if it's true for all of us that there's no "home" to return to, it should inform how we act and the sort of future we seek for ourselves.

[whomthebelltolls]

Well if you ask me, it would have been pointless to begin with; I am already dead, and thus there is no reason whatsoever to want to yearn to return home. All I'd be doing is going back to a cold grave. [A scoff.] If that. I was prepared to accept it, if that was the fate. So your argument holds very little bearing for someone like me, but, at the same time...

Why rob people of their hope? If that's what motivates them, let them have it.

That's another thing I've learned from being here.

OUT OF NOWHERE

[fuelingfire]

[Lahabrea sounds just ever so slightly annoyed.]

One would think you would have more faith in your deity. Do you think your Maker is so weak and pathetic as to not be able to fetch His faithful back to His grip upon your demise because you're on another world? Or is He merely that petty as to reject one of His faithful simply for being of a different origin? If He is either that narrow minded or that feeble, He is not deserving of adoration. But if He is capable, then walk a life that would make you worth fighting another star to reclaim.

text; un: ursamajor

[beariot]

This makes an awfully great number of assumptions, don't you think?

You're leaping to conclusions to explain the memory gap when wouldn't the most likely case be that the magic that powers the Looking Glass simply doesn't preserve memory? Memory loss due to traumatic disorientation is not unheard of, particularly in teleportation magic. Anything that travels over space time is going to cause issues with the perception of space and time. Certainly, this is also an assumption, but at least it's an assumption based on observations of similar phenomenon we can see right here in this world.

I feel like you're leaping to conclusions based on extremely limited information. If you have to supplement your explanation with "back home", then you're already presuming that your world and this one operate on similar principals when we already know that's not the case or all of our worlds would hold such principals.

voice;

[faithlikeaseed]

It fits what facts we have as well as a number of any other explanations might. [Alas Thedas doesn't have a robust philosophy of science yet, or he'd say the whole theory is underspecified.]

Amnesia on our return being one of them, but if it's an effect of passage through the mirrors, why do we retain our memories in full on arriving? The effects of teleportation between locations here are agnostic to the destination, unless there's some kind of interference between the teleporting Witch and her intended target--and that would operate for those teleporting from her destination to her departure point, too. Further, we've no precedent for anyone's memory being entirely erased by dislocation. Brief disorientation's a very different beast from losing months of one's past.

You could posit that there's a spell, or effect, that only operates on departing Mirrorbound to erase their memories, while not interfering with arrivals. Which, as far as I know, does not have much precedent within Talam's magic.

Further, we ourselves are a phenomenon without much precedent. We aren't exactly like our native counterparts, Witches or Monsters, and so far as I have heard the Coven still has no explanation for that. Saying our experiences must be completely explicable within the bounds of known magic here thus falls flat, because they are demonstrably not. Therefore, while any analogy to magical or metaphysical processes from our homes is inexact, it isn't a bad tool for developing hypotheses about our actual nature.

[He...actually sounds like he's enjoying this.]

This is all leaving aside the metaphysical question, of course--if all our memories and all physical evidence of our time here are erased when we return through the mirrors, such that we're returned home exactly as we left it with no hope of remembering what we've done here-- Did our selves here not effectively die?

voice;

[beariot]

[ After a moment of listening, she takes a while to respond, and eventually switches to voice. ]

I just lost one of my Bonded... Who was it for you?

[ Because it ultimately wasn't about whatever theories worked out to explain what was going on, because no matter what, what they felt in their day to day moments was real enough to be unable to be dismissed.

Did it help to think of it in terms of "death", even if it wasn't literal? She wasn't sure. She could never be. But she knew... it didn't ultimately matter, when she was there to feel the pain of loss in that moment. ]

text; un: crimsonrain

[deadvotional]

you say that as if it is a misfortune

voice;

[faithlikeaseed]

To me it certainly feels one right now. [Depressed Faun is at least aware he's depressed.]

[deadvotional]

if it means that i never truly left the person i swore to stand by, i would welcome oblivion for this part of me

audio; un: steak.

[battlebound]

I went home and returned.

( at least, he's pretty sure he wasn't just stood at the Looking Glass house for those five minutes on Tierra. what would be the point? )

[faithlikeaseed]

[OH GOOD VERIFIABLE INFORMATION.]

Do you remember--remembering your time here, while you were home?

[battlebound]

( that's... the bit where he probably won't be very helpful. )

I was distracted by my bladder.

( (': )

video | un: lucerni

[magisterium]

[Well, there's a face he recognizes— and antlers, as well, hard to miss those. It's been some time, but Dorian remembers encountering this particular elf during his first taste of what Aefenglom had to offer.

The topic at hand is a curious one, and certainly worth giving a fair amount of consideration.]

Now, I won't argue as to where we end up— how are we to know, after all— but I am fairly certain that I am myself. While I certainly appreciate your approach, and must admit there are more than a few things about our existence here that don't add up, I would know if I were some kind of spirit or pale imitation.

[Nobody can mimic someone this fabulous, or at least that's the line of reasoning he'll cling to. The truth may very well be that the possibility of Myr being right about that particular detail is unnerving, and hits a bit too close to home regarding his personal fears.]

Magic is capable of a great deal, but it could never recreate someone as stunning as I am.

video; un: METTATON

[glitzandglamour]

[A CASUAL THREADJACK, a side-comment Nobody asked for. He smiles at the camera, capitalizing on one point, and one point only.]

Oooh, I concur! A duplicate of myself could only WISH he were as sexy as moi... And I'm the full Mettaton experience. Ohhh yess!!

[A brief pause.] And you too, handsome. You're quite the looker... Anyway. Explain that, darling!

voice

[faithlikeaseed]

[That's Myr--with his spectacular rack (of antlers) and propensity for exposing people to uncomfortable existential horror.

He's managed to get the camera back off by the time Dorian speaks up--so, alas, the other man will miss the little lift of the Faun's ears to hear him. He's certainly glad to hear someone who sounds like home, even if it's not an unalloyed gladness. Not that he's got anything against Dorian himself, but--

Well, given the present topic of conversation, he'd really hoped no one else from Thedas had been pulled through the mirrors, lonely as that would make things.]

That is a solid objection, messere. [He sounds like he's smiling, at least a little.] Magic does have its limits, even here.

I'm less sanguine about my own lack of imitatability, [is that a word? It is now,] as I've been complained-to before about spirits bearing my likeness showing up to argue with people in their own dreams.

[A beat.] And if I'm one of those, that does explain some things.

video;

[judgementor]

You don't look well.

[Coming right out of the gate with that. He suspects that Myr doesn't intend to be seen.

As for the rest of it... Red Wine has given far too much thought to what exactly happens when people leave - how they leave, and where exactly they go - and his own opinions are much the same as what the Faun comes out with. It isn't something he allows to bother him terribly, given how many other things there are for him to worry about, but...]

I can see some sense in what you say, but does that account for those who return with intact memories of their time here?

voice;

[faithlikeaseed]

[By now he's gotten the video turned back off (fortunately for him), and could maybe--for composure's sake--just skip over the matter of his looks. Instead, and resignedly,] I don't think I am well.

[He knows something's wrong with him and he's acting off, but damned if his usual self-possession is working right now. No, instead he's bouncing between arguments meant to distract himself and then feeling miserable for having dumped the contents of his thoughts on a bunch of people who were already hurting.

Get a hold of yourself, Shivana.]

Like your partner? I--admit the theory doesn't neatly explain that. You've got to have an epicycle on it, like the mirrors somehow remembering our time here and giving that back to any new copies they make. But only sometimes.

Though it's equally a problem for the idea we're pulled from our homes, I think, if we only sometimes remember having been here before. Unless we posit that there's uncountably many versions of our homes out there, so the ones who return without memory aren't really the ones who were here before, however well we think we know them.

text | un: HOTARU☆KUN

[discarding]

[Midousuji briefly wonders if this guy is as obviously blind as he appears. a lot of people here are magical and bullshitty, so Midousuji decides he'll see if there's some kind of disability accomodation to text. he doesn't want to go gabbing his voice and his regional accent and his particular cadence all over the place, much less show his image.

Midousuji's head tilts dramatically as he pulls his lip down, exposing his gums as he squints at his screen. that's a lot of disquieting shit he doesn't want to really think about, but he's already here. all possibilities should logically be considered.

Midousuji pulls his gloves off with his teeth, growling out a long, gravelly and low "grosssssssss," then responds.]

Yuck. I hate this.

So like......... magic...clones?? Ghosts, kind of? Ghost clones?

I didn't realize people "went home" and returned in the first place. Do you think something similar goes on when people die in this world, and are then ressurected? Or do you think that those brought back to life are indeed our original and "true" selves?

Between all this creepy gross stuff and the stuff that METTATON was saying, I'm really being made to walk back on my own theories, a little bit...

things lark does for rp #28482: looking at google ngrams for clone to see when it entered english

[faithlikeaseed]

[Oh hey it's this guy. (Gal? ...This Witch.)

The opening line gets a huff of wan amusement out of Myr.]

I don't much like it either, truth be told. [He doesn't want to have concluded it's the most plausible explanation for much of the evidence they have, but it's what he's stuck on right now. Absent anything else for his overactive mind to work on and already being in a very negative mood, the brooding set in.]

Something like that--given Witches here can create impermanent magical copies of things, even living creatures, I'm... [He trails off a moment, then goes "huh" to himself. Something clicked.] --I'm wondering if it's not something like that, anchored in the mirrors. Maybe our "leaving" is just the spell expiring, since they can't create anything permanently...

It's not common but it does happen, though they seem to return more often than not without their memories of Aefenglom. [Steak had his memories, but M and Geralt hadn't. The Tevinter fellow--Dorian--had been in Aefenglom when Myr arrived, but vanished before they'd ever had a chance to talk, and the man by that name now seems a newcomer to the place. And so on.]

As for resurrection here--I haven't made a close enough study of it to say, [it involves blood magic so, you know,] but the Coven certainly takes it as true the original soul returns to the body, when the spell's successful. Which isn't at all how necromancy works back home, nor was I much of a student of that, so--perhaps take anything I say on the matter with a grain of salt.

And what theories were those? [He manages a note of genuine interest; new theorizing is always welcome.]

video; un: zewu-jun

[zewu_jun]

You... believe we are spirits? Not human?

[The question is quiet and unsure. He doesn't like that at all, especially when he's already lost so many.]

voice;

[faithlikeaseed]

[Ah, Maker. He's doing quite a number on everyone else's feelings, isn't he?

Misery does indeed love company.]

Being human would be quite a feat for me, since I wasn't to begin with, [he offers, by way of a lame joke.] But--no, I don't truly believe we're spirits, at least not spirits as I know them. We certainly have physical bodies of our own, without possessing anyone, and if they're knit together with magic it's something so strong it can't be dispelled through ordinary means.

But I don't know we're--the same people we remember being, on the other side of the mirrors.